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In Defence of Ayn Rand #10: Anarchism's Flawed Analysis



Uploaded by: PaulMcKeever
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In this video, Paul McKeever discusses the argument of "market anarchists" that Rand's assertion - that government rightly has a monopoly on the retaliatory use of force - is inconsistent with her non-agression principle: the principle that no person should initiate the use of coercive physical force.
He argues that that argument is an instance of the mind-body dichotomy: the application of one moral evaluation to a thought, and another to the action that the thought produces.


Tags for this video: anarchism anarchy Ayn force Objectivism Rand retaliatory

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Every burglar and ... ( 11 months ago by PaulMcKeever)
Every burglar and murderer rejects objective laws. You respond to their initiation of coercive force with retaliatory force. You do so whether or not they are "unwilling".
Rejection of ... ( 11 months ago by LibertyIsNotGiven)
Rejection of objective laws = theft and murder. Non sequitur, McKeever. Theft and murder = rejection of objective laws. Possibly, but also non sequitur, since most thieves and murders do not want to be stolen from or killed. I see why you find it necessary to make that conflation, however, as you've no argument otherwise.
No, "subjective" is ... ( 11 months ago by blue46gt)
No, "subjective" is what an opinion, in this case a legal decree from some state monopoly.
Objective rules, in this instance, would be revealed though society's understanding of, and how well it comports to, cause and effect. Like scientific progress, society needs a free and unfettered open competition in order to best discover the objective rules.
A set of objective ... ( 11 months ago by blue46gt)
A set of objective rules cannot be founded on someones word. Rather, an objective set of rules would be discovered through trial and error in an open marketplace framework.
Another science analogy: Gravity isnt real or objective because a scientist says it is. Rather, it is discovered to be real.
The rules have ... ( 11 months ago by D4rkReaver13)
The rules have already been discovered. The initiation of force is wrong and must be banned. I somehow doubt that trial and error will get anyone anywhere in terms of politics; you just have to look at the countless failures of the past.
I agree that the ... ( 11 months ago by blue46gt)
I agree that the initiation of force must be banned. But that is because it violates the consent of another. And when a consumer or producers consent is violated, it is also a violation of supply and demand.
True. However, ... ( 11 months ago by D4rkReaver13)
True. However, wheres one can legitimately choose to buy a different chocolate bar, a different refrigerator, or one can choose to not buy one at all, one cannot legitimately "opt out" of being subjected to the law; i.e. be free from objective standards; be free from justice. You can't just go out and purchase a different set of laws to suit your own beliefs.
All you say sounds ... ( 11 months ago by lordmetroid)
All you say sounds good on paper, but the power of authority is too dangerous for 67% of the population to posses according to the milgram experiment and such alike(The prison experiments).
And as Peter Parker aka Spiderman says, with great power comes great responsibility. The problem is no one can hold the people holding the power responsible without the market forces.
Objective rules (I ... ( 11 months ago by grantsinmypants)
Objective rules (I guess you mean laws) come from neither decree nor from supply and demand (collective decree). They come from man's nature and are discovered using logic.
They are OBJECTIVE, not intrinsic nor subjective.
Think about what ... ( 11 months ago by grantsinmypants)
Think about what the claim that "supply and demand determine what's correct" means.
It means that when Edison created the light bulb (and later the demand for it) he was merely asserting his subjective preference for electric light.
Yes, S&D work ALOT better than central planning, but it is not automatically the best way to do something.
Market forces ... ( 11 months ago by PaulMcKeever)
Market forces remain forces only so long as they are backed by the retaliatory use of guns. Think about it. So the issue is: do you agree that such use should be govered by objective laws, or are "competing" decision-makers the best way to objectively control such force?
Theres no way to ... ( 11 months ago by Signofthedollar)
Theres no way to rebell against laissez-faire capitalism without violating someones individual rights. The "Lets Legalize Crime Crowd" days are numbered.
You miss the ... ( 11 months ago by SlickExecutiveType)
You miss the argument completely Paul... stop flailing at strawmen and read some Rothbard :P
I've read lots of ... ( 11 months ago by PaulMcKeever)
I've read lots of Rothbard. I like his economics. His philosophical writings only prove my point.
If your point is ' ... ( 11 months ago by SlickExecutiveType)
If your point is 'the state is the enemy of freedom', than that would be true. Rand was such a warmongering bitch. You should take out 'the ethics of liberty', you can request it via an inter library loan from any london library ;)
Excellent video! ( 10 months ago by rzennrer)
Excellent video!
ok stop the ... ( 9 months ago by CheeezMaster)
ok stop the wordgames and come help save what's left of this shithole planet, book man.
Somebody's got a ... ( 9 months ago by Duckyhunter)
Somebody's got a bad case of the Mondays.
Haha, Office Space. ... ( 9 months ago by CheeezMaster)
Haha, Office Space... I can appreciate that reference.
The main problem ... ( 8 months ago by MillionthUsername)
The main problem with the argument about one set of laws is that such is never the case except locally. The relationship between sovereign states is an anarchy and is "governed" either by treaty or by force. It seems we ought to argue for one world government to be consistent. Why can't smaller sovereign entities act in a similar way to decentralize power and so prevent extremely large conflicts and abuses of power? If the minimal state is the best, what size ought it be? Hard question!
Regarding conflict ... ( 8 months ago by MillionthUsername)
Regarding conflict of interest for a market justice system, it only applies in the aggregate of all the subscribers just like democracy. My rep doesn't write laws I want and is not answerable to me but to the "market" of voters at large who create a majority. This is where you get "objective"
law from anyway. It doesn't fall from heaven. How could it be any worse under a free system than a monopoly? Ever been turned down by YOUR insurance company? They can't pander to every subscriber.
Array ( 6 months ago by GetterRoboG)
i farted > i voted
Forget philosophy, ... ( 3 months ago by senselessbattery)
Forget philosophy, forget law, forget everything. All I wanna know is
How the fuck did you time your video to finish at the end of the journey?!?
hey Paul, I ... ( 3 weeks ago by natdavi)
hey Paul, I considered this argument as well and independantly came up w/almost the exact same response!



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