In Defence of Ayn Rand #2-2: 'Good' Art

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In Defence of Ayn Rand #2-2: 'Good' Art

Uploaded by: PaulMcKeever
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A continuation of my conversation with Luke12000 concerning the nature of art. In this part, I address Luke's position that it is okay to categorize art, but not to evaluate it. I explain - as well as can be done by me "on the fly" while driving - the three general theories of "the good": intrinsicist, subjectivist, and objectivist. Luke's view, I suggest, is subjectivist.

Tags for this video: art Ayn good Objectivism Rand

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I took " ... ( 1 year ago by Entropy56)

I took "intrinsically good" to mean that the judgment of a thing is based upon a real or imaginary authority outside oneself. And the subjectivist bases judgment within himself. Of course, the conundrum is that the accepting outside authority is merely making the subjective judgment indirectly.

But this indirect ... ( 1 year ago by Entropy56)

But this indirect subject authority (e.g. God) can be accepted for only so long as the dissonance between the specific judgments of that outside authority don't vary too much. In the end subjectivism wins out. Belief in intrinsically good is just a shell game.

And this is where ... ( 1 year ago by lokitoyz)

And this is where we get into a loop that just goes nowhere. I appreciate you confirming my concerns. It is merely a form of intellectual masterbation as far as I can surmize. Fun but nevertheless useless. Thanks.

You are responding ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

You are responding to a lot of psuedo-intellectual hokum. Let the artist open his nostrils, breath and inhale, like Jackson Pollock did, who sought an outlet for his emotional and sensual universe. Rand panned all art that didn't fit into her tiny cocoon of "reality". I can't think of a more dynamic expression of individualism than surrealism. Naturalism had led to an enormous amount of social change, and exisentialism was beyond her intellectual capacities.

McKeever, try ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

McKeever, try writing a novel. Make sure that your values and ideas relate "objectively" to the human experience, in order to produce a work that may be "analytically accurate", but lifeless and stodgy. If you want to understand anything about art, the LAST person you should listen to is Ayn Rand.

Good lord. You do ... ( 1 year ago by marneedear)

Good lord. You do realize that Rand admired Dali and Jose Manuel Capuletti, right?

You should read ... ( 1 year ago by marneedear)

You should read Sparrowhawk.

In order to make ... ( 1 year ago by marneedear)

In order to make these modernist "things" seem valuable you necessarily HAVE to make up stuff to prop it up! But Realism stands on its own. It doesnt need any "art world" to defend its value with "art speak." And yet we are to think that paint drippings are highly valuable and deeply intellectual?

Not to my knowledge ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

Not to my knowledge, I am not even remotely aware that she admired them. But I am aware that she panned Beethoven, Mozart, and Shakespeare as being anathema to Objectivist thought.

Will check him or ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

Will check him or her out.

It's the ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

It's the emotionally weak and intellectually inept who must make things up. Realism does not merely stand on its own. Even the Naturalists had to be selective in how to convey their messages and sense of purpose.
As for Jackson Pollock, I fell in love the moment I laid eyes on him. The vitality, the disorder, and the color schemes strike a chord. I would rather suck it up than "intellectually analyze" it; that would kill the taste. You are looking at him purely as a technician.

Beatbuddy, thank ... ( 1 year ago by lokitoyz)

Beatbuddy, thank you it's nice to see there is some integrity left in this world. Existentialism is a great foundation and way of life. The only problem that I can find with it is that it does not embrace the eastern concept of impermanance. I know that we make our own meaning according to Sartre but that does not account for our lack of control as we approach finality.

Thanx for the ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

Thanx for the gracious reply. There are no philosophers whom I embrace wholesale, not even my mentor, Bertrand Russell. Rand purported to be objective, but this is nonsense. She was too narcisstic, too megalomaniacal to fill that role. Any thought that fell short of her absolutist, panaceaic view of life was by definition evil. Shakespeare is right: "There is more to heaven and earth than what is dreamed of in your philosophy."

Yes, and althought ... ( 1 year ago by lokitoyz)

Yes, and althought shakespeare at times defered to the Christian belief system it seems to me that a certain doubt in his own beliefs is revealed in the antogonistic Edmund from Lear. When he says...(continued)

"This is the ... ( 1 year ago by lokitoyz)

"This is the excellent foppery of the world when we are sick in fortune often the surfeit of our own behaviour we make guilty of our disasters the sun the moon the stars as if we were villians on neccessity fools by heavenly compulsion naives theives treacherers by spherical predominance. Drunkards liars and adulterers by an enforced obediance of planetary influence and all that we are evil in by a divine thrusting on."

Anyway I'm sure you ... ( 1 year ago by lokitoyz)

Anyway I'm sure you get the point rejection of mysticism blah, blah, blah. I believe writers reveal certain aspects of themselves when they write dialogue for their characters. Shakespeare is no exception but is exceptional.

There has been lots ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

There has been lots of conjecture about Shakespeare being a religious skeptic. One thing is certain, he cannot be regarded as a religious writer when compared to this contemporaries, in which religion was the dominant theme.

Shakespeare is ... ( 1 year ago by BeatBuddy)

Shakespeare is often regarded as having the best understanding of human nature. I picked it up many years ago while reading A MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM. Balzac, in my view, is a first runner up.
By putting labels(i.e. msytics) on writers, Rand immuned herself from appreciating and understanding cultural achievements. Thoreau comes to mind.

Rand believed that ... ( 1 year ago by artsissy)

Rand believed that music was art, despite explaining in the Romantic Manifesto that it can't communicate concepts or meanings. In other words, she recognized that it is unintelligible, and, as I quoted her below, that "no objectively valid criterion of aesthetic judgment possible" for music, and that we must treat musical tastes "as a subjective matter."

Interesting, isn't ... ( 1 year ago by artsissy)

Interesting, isn't it, that a subjective, abstract form like music is art according to Rand, yet a subjective, abstract form like abstract painting isn't? The "objective" standard used in determining what is or is not art was apparently nothing more than Rand's subjective feelings, while the subjective feelings of fans of abstract art were declared invalid.

Query: did she ... ( 1 year ago by PaulMcKeever)

Query: did she actually say "music is art"

I don't recall if ... ( 1 year ago by artsissy)

I don't recall if she said the specific phrase "music is art," but she clearly believed that it was. She listed it as one of the major branches of art, and, when defining its nature, she contrasted it several times against "the other arts."

She also believed ... ( 1 year ago by artsissy)

She also believed that architecture was art, despite stating that it "combines art with a utilitarian purpose and does not re-create reality," which contradicted both her view that art cannot serve a utilitarian purpose and her definition of art - a "re-creation of reality."

why can't you guys ... ( 6 months ago by dharmabam)

why can't you guys just email each other

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