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ABC News Republican Debate from Iowa - Part 5



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http://www.YouDecide2008.com - Candidates Debate Taxes - GOP contenders debate the fairness of the "Fair Tax." 8/5/07


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This gets to the ... ( 6 months ago by Diskatopia)
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
Another of the many ... ( 6 months ago by Diskatopia)
Another of the many flaws of this hammer-the-middle-classes tax:
There is not "23% of embedded taxes*" in the price of everything you buy. Taking the concept as FT fans define it, we see IT IS AN AVERAGE. Some items may have 35% or more in "embedded taxes" while others may have 5%. Thus an imposition of a 23%i/30%e sales tax throws markets for a loop.
*allowing for the concept of "embedded taxes" to be used... others can explain why this is a false idea with respect to the prices of goods
FairTax owns the ... ( 6 months ago by RandomTask01)
FairTax owns the Flat tax!
Romney was such a ... ( 5 months ago by stealthswimmer)
Romney was such a douche in the debates.
This gets to the ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatopia)
This gets to the root of the "embedded" taxes falsehood-- those "embedded" taxes are removals from different persons' INCOME, at different levels... and if all those those removals are instead given to the earner, the rich qet back 30%+ while the lower middle gets back 12%+, and prices go up 15-25%.
The middle class (and senior citizens living on savings, and churches/religious groups, and not-for-profits, et cetera) would be devastated.
The "Fair" Tax is FAIL.
The epitome of the ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatopia)
The epitome of the fudging by backers of the National Sales Tax can be seen at tinyurldot com/5axt4w, page 4, Table 0.
a table of data by SUPPORTERS of this sales tax.
1)Income for the top decile goes up, the bottom decile goes down.
2)expenditures on the top decile go down, expenditures on the bottom decile goe up.
3) That Table defines the lolFAIL nature of the "research" behind this National Sales Tax idea.
Read their "conclusion" below the table for an extra laugh.
On looking at the ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatop)
On looking at the chart again, maybe I am unclear, because sthey did not label the chart well nor the right side numbers, and I assumed those were income changes. IF they mean those are expenditure changes, then the chart is basically a meaningless "logroll", I will look at more of their stuff to see... maybe not as outlandish as it seemed initially, but then, they have plenty of other outlandish charts with fudged numbers trying to get to therir ideological goal.
Another of the many ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatop)
Another of the many flaws of this hammer-the-middle-classes tax:
There is not "23% of embedded taxes*" in the price of everything you buy. Taking the concept as FT fans define it, we see IT IS AN AVERAGE. Some items may have 35% or more in "embedded taxes" while others may have 5%. Thus an imposition of a 23%i/30%e sales tax throws markets for a loop.
*allowing for the concept of "embedded taxes" to be used... others can explain why this is a false idea with respect to the prices of goods
If you make between ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatopia)
If you make between $25,000 and $250,000 a year, you will pay more in taxes under this tax.
It increases the burden of the middle classes and lowers it on the wealthy, according to the FT/NST backers OWN NUMBERS:
From Beacon Hill: Table 9. Average Tax-Inclusive Rates by Income Groups for the FairTax(Replacing Current Income, Payroll, and Estate and Gift Taxes)
by income level deciles:
1 223%
2 30%
3 26%
4 22%
5 20%
6 19%
7 18%
8 19%
9 17%
10 13%
Average 20%
The FT/NST hammers ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatopia)
The FT/NST hammers the middle classes.
FT/NST backers own data--
From Beacon Hill: Table 9. Average Tax-Inclusive Rates by Income Groups for the FairTax(Replacing Current Income, Payroll, and Estate and Gift Taxes)
by expenditures deciles:
1 25%
2 19%
3 19%
4 19%
5 19%
6 19%
7 19%
8 20%
9 20%
10 (highest) 19%
Average 20%
Further ... ( 5 months ago by Diskatopia)
Further misrepresentations of the "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" AFT site:
Since I went to high school with "my" congressman, I wrote him since we had a very rigorous math department at our school, and yet he is listed as a supporter of this "hammer-the-middle-class 'Fair'" Tax on the AFT site.
Not surprisingly, when I got a personal letter back form him, he states that he IS NO LONGER a supporter of the "Fair" Tax.
Math wins again.
"Fair Tax" is FAIL.
Fair tax is an ... ( 4 months ago by AlyBlack)
Fair tax is an awesome idea
why is ron paul not ... ( 4 months ago by enomarekim)
why is ron paul not allowed to talk
Iowa is the best ... ( 4 months ago by triptows)
Iowa is the best state ever, they build the best corn in the usa. And talk true for all americans since we are so smart. Vote Replican again cause we republicans rule. We win every war and give money to everyone.
If you are a fan of ... ( 3 months ago by Diskatopia)
If you are a fan of this tax, I am imploring you, open your mind, and please read and understand Table 11 (on page 31), concerning "Utility"(essentially, well-being) results yearly across income groups if the FT were to pass, at the following link on the FT backers' own site:
tinyurl dotcomslash 593htl
Earn $10k - $150k a ... ( 3 months ago by Diskwin)
Earn $10k - $150k a year? Want to pay more taxes and have less leisure time on average? Then the FT/NST is the wacko tax for you!
"In the aggregate, some households* would not be as well off for the first couple of years**. However, a stronger incentive to invest and save would cut into consumption, and the greater incentive to work would cut into leisure."
tinyurl 593htl, page 31
*those making $10K-$150K a year
**5-10 years, minimum
"Real wages are ... ( 3 months ago by Diskwin)
"Real wages are 10.3%, 9.5%, and 9.2% higher in years 1, 10, and 25, respectively than would otherwise be the case. "-fairtaxorg
Ahhh, sounds great, doesn't it? But again, they are averaging all classes together -- let's look at the true picture:
Real wages of those making $10k-$150K up roughly 0.3 - 3.7%, real wages of those making less than $10k up roughly 13%, while the real wages of those making more than $150K is up nearly 50% (BHI, Table 5).
"Fair" Tax = FAIL.
According to the ... ( 3 months ago by Diskwin)
According to the CBO, the current effective federal tax rate of the middle classes is roughly 8-18%, and the current effective rate of the top 20% of is 26%. The estimates by FT/NST supporters put the effective rate under the FT/NST at 19-21% across the board. Do the simple math to see who would be paying more under the FT/NST and who would be paying less.
The National Center ... ( 3 months ago by privateeyeman)
The National Center for Policy Analysis, The National Taxpayers Union and The American Farm Bureau, "The Voice of Agriculture", endorse the FairTax.
What it comes down ... ( 3 months ago by Diskwin)
What it comes down to is the following -- supporters of this tax are arguing that raising the taxes of the middle classes* and lowering their "well-being" from 5-15 years or more, while lowering the taxes of the wealthy and raising their "well-being" every year from year one, will help the economy and is a "good thing."
I strongly disagree with that-- the midclasses don't want to be serfs to a plutocracy.
Shades of "Metropolis"(Lang) and "Soylent Green"...
"Fair" Tax=FAIL
*midclasses in this ... ( 3 months ago by Diskwin)
*midclasses in this case being those making from about $25k to $200K... and again, these points are directly from the research of supporters of the tax, and are not points of debate-- the data is clear and from fairtaxorg/BHI, which SUPPORTs this crazy tax:
Tables 11 and 9,tinyurl 593htl
and fairtaxorg/BHI, Table 9, tiny 67cyeq
and from CBOgov at
CBO, Table 1A, tinyurl 3gudvf
The "Fair" Tax aka National Sales Tax-inclusive aka "NaSTi" is a very bad idea and would devastate the country.
From BHI/fairtaxorg ... ( 2 months ago by Diskwin)
From BHI/fairtaxorg:"Households in the lowest income band, with an (AGI) of less than $10,000 annually, would benefit because they would receive the prebate that would more than offset any higher cost of purchasing goods.Households in the top income category, with more than $150,000 in annual income, would also gain as they do not have to pay their highest marginal tax rates. Mid-income category households would lose because the Fair Tax would impose a relatively higher tax rate on them."
Listeners might ... ( 2 months ago by mercerdrew)
Listeners might also find it interesting that the FairTax is the most thoroughly researched legislation in American history. $62 Million has been invested in the research, which has been administered by leading economic experts from our country's top universities and think tanks. It is revenue neutral, yet the impact as Boortz states, would be the single largest transfer of power back to the people. With $50+ trillion in unfunded liabilities on the horizon, we need this legislation to pass.
mitt romney is dick ... ( 1 month ago by Loki8901)
mitt romney is dick head never will be presidnet so romney go back and fuck joseph smith...



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